The DX'er's Notebook
Dave Braun,
dcbraun@delanet.com, 863 Allabands Mill Road, Camden Wyoming DE 19934-2132We begin this time with another DX’ers story as to how he began:
Perry Crabill <pcrabill@visuallink.com>: Reading about the young squirts that began BCB DXing in the 1950-1960 period makes me feel very ancient. I began DXing in Washington, DC, as a pre-teen using the family neutrodyne in the early 1930s. This was powered by a storage battery in the basement and a "B" Eliminator next to the radio, on top of my father's desk in the dining room. I got so excited when I picked up KMOX in St. Louis that my father disconnected the battery. By cranking up the filament rheostat and fiddling with the tuning dials I could bring it to the edge of oscillation, which made it more selective. We had that setup for a number of years, and I suppose that the best DX was CMQ in Havana. As people bought all-electric radios they gave away their old battery sets, and I fooled with several of them, but I don't recall their manufacturers. I built my first receiver in 1934. It used a single 19 twin-triode as regen detector and one-step audio, and finally worked the third time I built it. My first station was DJD in Zeesen, Germany, on 11,720 kc. I wound some BCB coils, but local stations overloaded it when trying for DX. I eventually built an ac-powered regen with a 35 untuned RF stage, 24A detector, and 47 audio output. I used this both on the SW and BC bands, and as my ham receiver when I was eventually licensed as W3HQX in 1938. I was able to get California BCB stations with this, including 5 kw KFWB-950 when local WRC signed off at 1:00 AM. Later on I spent $12 for a used Philco Model 635 (6 tubes, made in 1935) all-wave receiver, taking it home on the streetcar from across town. This was a pretty decent set, with a tuned RF stage on all bands. I used it mainly for shortwave reception, but also DXed the BCB. Unfortunately, I have none of my logs from those days. In 1936 I did manage to hear LR1-1070 in Buenos Aires when they made special test transmissions for the National Bureau of Standards. As I remember, I sat on 1070 kilocycles (this before kHz) until 2:00 AM, when WTAM signed off, and there was LR1. I sent them a report, and six months later received a QSL card which I've misplaced. Other DX was KGU and KGMB in Hawaii, and all of the California 50 kw stations. In those days the magazines I read were the Gernsback publications SHORT WAVE CRAFT and RADIO CRAFT, WHITE'S RADIO LOG, RADIO NEWS, and RADIO INDEX (RADEX). I have a March, 1933 copy of the latter, which I may reprise in a future communication. RADIO NEWS used to publish articles about BCB DX reception from Europe, South America, Australia, and Japan. I first heard about the NRC during the war when I was attending the Navy Radio Materiel School at the Naval Research Lab in DC. One of my classmates told me about an NRC DX test by a station in Corner Brook, Newfoundland, and I was able to copy it despite having the Philco 635 in an apartment building. I joined the NRC after the war, and have dropped out and rejoined a number of times. I hope to continue as a member as long as I am healthy and have a house of my own. I'm 79 years old, and wonder who the oldest NRC member might be. (To be continued?)
And we also have another comment on the CCRadio and Superadios:
Charles Gaharan <englcg@mobiletel.com>: I don't know if Larry Van Horn read the NRC reprint of the review of the GE SUPER RADIO years back, but likewise some of the CCRadios are very good sets. I guess I got lucky with both, but my CC Radio gets all the portable action now--the GE SUPER RADIO is on the shelf. I have been in the hobby since 1966 (former member of the NNRC and WPE5EVU from Popular Mechanic). I am completely satisfied with my CC Radio without an external antenna—no 60 meter SWBC popping up anywhere, no problems with WWL 870 or the local KTIB 640 at my location. I never would have bought either one of these portables based on some of the early reviews, but after actually using each, I did not hesitate to buy and keep both. With the new CC Radio now, my tabletops even get less AM use than they used to get.
The next topic is from my personal interest – well, I started the discussion anyway:
David Braun <dcbraun@delanet.com>: While typing up some logs for DDXD I was reminded of a subject I wanted to ask about. During the recent "Nor'easter" that blew through here conditions to upstate NY were unusally enhanced late into the morning the day of the storm. WPIE-1160, WCJW-1140, for example heard well after 0900 local. There was another front approaching from the west also, I believe. This is the third or fourth time in recent years I have noticed this effect. And one time the day after the storm it went into New England, including unusual enhancement, again between 0830 and 1000, to VT and NH. Does anyone have an explanation for this?
Ragnar Danneskjold <lwdxer@juno.com>: You are going to hear what I wondered about and most DXers will tell you that it makes no difference. You are not alone, but again, most DXers will disagree with the two of us. I personally think that there is a correlation between storms and AM band DX. I have observed it and I assume others have as well, I just have heard most DXers say that it makes no difference.
John R Tudenham <jotud@juno.com>: I have noted enhanced ground wave or possibly D layer during day time hours when we have snow on the ground such as 50 kw Chigago stations being heard at noon.We have only had one snow this winter and now back to normal conditions again as it is 57o today.We are 494 miles from Chicago.I do hear WNAX 570 in Yankton SD daily on groundwave at 427 miles but ground conductivity is much better in that direction, no sign of WMAQ 670
Wayne Heinen <Nrclog@aol.com>: Actually, I think that quite a few will agree with both of you... Arctic cold fronts coming down from Canada will bring in some amazing signals from the Northern Canadian stations that usually aren't heard. I've noted it on many occasions here in Colorado...
Russ Edmunds <wb2bjh@yahoo.com>: This discussion brings back memories from the laround 1970 or 1971, when I came into possession of some copies of some data used by a long-time broadcast engineer of my acquaintance, who had penned an article for 'Broadcast Management & Engineering' on something he called the "Winter-Summer Change". I had noted as far back as the early 1960's (back when it snowed fequently in Northern NJ) that incoming snow enhanced propagation in the direction and area where it was already snowing, with the best reception when it was snowing at both ends of the reception path. I remember putting together an article incorporating a lot of the engineer's research and turning the viewpoint around for DX'ers. I even submitted it for publication in DXN, although it never appeared - something about "gross theoretical improbabilities" or somesuch. (JAC, this is probably the prequel to something you've previously alluded to, hi). Anyway, as other have noted, there are two things at work - one is more widely-accepted, which is the increased groundwave resulting from snow cover, which, when coupled with normally better groundwave conditions noted in winter (which also goes back to the BM/E article) can be quite pronounced, even when the snow is no longer falling. The second is the additional enhancement which seems to accompany the 'snowing-all-along-the-signal-path' item above, which is probably still controversial. There are a few receptions of mine which will be in DDXD, I think the coming issue, from New England which could conceivably demonstrate both effects. Of course at my QTH, the prolonged snow cover is awful, as it puts KYW-1060/WFIL-560/WZZD-990 (all transmitters within a mile of each other and about 5 miles from me) all over the dial by day - not just mathematically-predictable sum-and-difference spurs - very hard to DX unless I hop in the car and put another 5 miles between me and them.
Michael Shaw N1XTV <thousandislands@mediaone.net>: Hi, all! Geez...just when I thought I was onto something... Actually, I have noticed a correlation between high and low pressure weather systems and my reception of 720 CHTN, Charlottetown, PEI from my QTH on the North Shore of Massachusetts. Granted, much of the line-of-sight path is over water from Charlottetown to Beverly, Massachusetts, but there is wide variability in hearing this station nevertheless. It seems as though when a low pressure system is west of Charlottetown—and when a high pressure system is east of that city--my reception is better (less noise and high signal strength). This appears on my automobile radio ('97 Plymouth Neon with a CCrane coil loaded antenna) and on my various portables and RX-320 at home and at work. And I always run home when it starts to snow, because the propagation is usually better (given favorable A and K indices). I always thought it might have something to do with prevailing winds helping to push the signal towards me, but that can't be, because I have perfect pitch and would have heard the doppler shift upward in pitch when they play music <vbg 8-)>.
David Braun: If it was strictly groundwave, it wouldn't fade out by 1000 or so in the morning, would it?Ragnar Danneskjold: Dave, Water is always the key to DX. With snow or ice on the ground, the ground conductivity is VERY high. I can tell you that from living in Rhode Island. I also can tell you, having been a sailor, radio travels a long way over the water out at sea. If there is a fade when there is snow or ice, I have found that it is extremely short. I used to get phenomenal reception to Europe on LW and MW on snowy or icy days. John R Tudenham: Besides being weather related, I know a low A and K index also brings in stronger signals from the northern latitudes. I also have noticed on some nights I get a stronger signal from WTAM 1100 in Cleveland 750 miles than KMOX 1120 St Louis at 259 miles. These stations are both 50 kw and non directional, close in frequency so shoud be a good comparison. Could be KMOX could be skipping over but I have noticed this only during winter months when weather is colder. Russ Edmunds: I know that there's an opinion prevalent that this should be the case, but I've also seen 1000-mile midday midwinter receptions over the years attributed to groundwave. I have seen little, if any, research on the subject, one way or the other. There is a parallel of sorts I noticed in my active VHF hamming days - VHF FM signals travel farther in winter than in summer. Many times this was attributed to the trees in summer, with leaves and sap and so on, absorbing more of the signals. It's another case where there is an observed phenomenon which seems to fly in the face of known facts and accepted theories and cannot be explained. If suppose that if one accepts the idea that a prime indicator of groundwave vs. skywave reception is a steady signal with no fading, and if that is what is experienced, then one can conclude midday groundwave. (Realizing that a nighttime clear-channel skywave signal may be similar, I would submit that in that case, we really don't know how much of that signal is groundwave, either.) So, I guess what I'm saying is that while we may pretty definitively identify that which is skywave, it's harder to pin down groundwave vs. a combination of the two. 'Way back when' I can remember some BCB DX'ers insisting that the strength of snowstorm-aided receptions were a function of the rapidity and heaviness of the snowfall because the snow served as a conductor for the signals. Of course if that were true, there'd be an awful increase in noise, too, one would think.... Bruce Conti <BACONTI@aol.com>: I've always believed that weather and DX are related on mediumwave, based solely on unscientific observations. I've often pondered this topic and thought of possible reasons for weather-related changes in MW propagation. Here are some hypotheses to consider. First, a wet ground can only improve the efficiency of an antenna system, and thus improve ERP, especially for antennas with poor ground or poorly maintained ground systems. Improved ground at the receiving site is also a plus. Second, if nothing else, it's widely known that falling snow can charge a long wire antenna, potentially causing damage to a sensitive RF input if not grounded before connection or when not in use. If snow can do this, then one could infer that there are other effects on transmission and/or reception. Third, a large storm or associated frontal system must have some effect on the ionospheric layers, simply by the agitation or movement of the atmosphere which disturbs the height of those theoretical layers. The ionosphere is never as neatly layered as shown in textbook conceptual drawings anyway.Doug Smith <w9wi@bellsouth.net>: I wrote an item about groundwave in a recent MT column (which, incidentally, has generated more mail than anything I've ever written!) which received some replies in this area. Specifically, one from Randall Tripp in Minnesota, who received the Army test station "KTRK"-1670 during sunlight at his location about 100 miles south of Minneapolis. My reply was that I suspect he was receiving them via *skywave*. The absorbing D layer (which is the only reason you don't get skywave signals all day long) doesn't instantly appear at sunrise, and doesn't instantly disappear at sunset. In midwinter, it doesn't begin to appear until relatively late - especially in Minnesota, where sunrise is relatively late in winter. It might not reach full strength until 10:30-11-11:30am; some days, it might not reach full strength at all, making some amount of DX possible all day long. Whether this can be ascribed to particular tropospheric phenomena is a good question. I've personally observed two specific incidents of unusually long daylight reception, neither of which seemed to correspond to any unusual weather conditions: #1: WMAQ-670, WGN-720, and WBBM-780 pounding into western Kansas at about 2:30pm in mid-February.
#2: KRLD-1080, good reception here in the Nashville area at high noon in December.
John R Tudenham: I have observed on the 160 meter ham band (1.8mhz) , especially during the winter months sky wave propagation sometimes as much as two hours before sunset or after sunrise. The same thing has also been observed on the high end of the broadcast band. This is more noticeable when the solar flux is low and during the minimum years of the 11 year solar cycle. Solar readings may be obtained from WWV 2.5, 5, 10, 15 and 20mhz at 18 minutes past the hour. They give the solar flux ,A and K index. I believe getting 50 kw stations 1000 miles away at noon even on the low end of the band when we have snow cover is a different type of propagation. Chris Knight <swrad@juno.com>: In 1996 when a Hurricane came up the Gulf of California, I heard 630-XEFX in Guaymas, Sonora at a steady 50db over S9 (!) from my home QTH of Firestone, Colorado which is 10 miles North of local KHOW (5kW directional towards me). I had been DX'ing Mexico quite extensively (logged 140 XE stations from Colorado), but this is the only time I've ever heard XEFX. They QRM'd KHOW on the car radio and with the 50 foot random longwire. I suppose XEFX could've boosted power for the hurricane, but to be strong enough to overcome local KHOW the power would've needed to be in the PJB-800 league. This is clear evidence that weather affects BCB propagation.
Russ Edmunds: I have observed many cases where the northern midwest clears - Chicago, Toronto, Detroit, Minneapolis - were audible all day in mid-December in Northern NJ back when there were still daytimers. On rare occasions, I even observed KMOX that way. This, plus your comments illustrate the dilemma in trying to determine whether these result solely from groundwave, D-skip or a combination! And here, too, the element of weather plays a part, I am sure, although I can't remember how much of the northern part of the country was under snow cover at those times, but for several of them there was snow cover at my QTH.
Doug Smith: In theory, weather isn't supposed to have any effect, but... practice certainly seems to show it does. As for snow, I can see it causing a temporary major increase in ground conductivity. Almost as if the area had been temporarily flooded.
Russ Edmunds: There's even more to it. If the snow is followed by colder weather or by a brief warm spell followed by colder weather, then that moisture is trapped (by freezing) just below the surface, which can prolong the effect. For instance, today we had a daytime temperature above 34F for the first time in nearly a month here, and in that time we've had over 15" of snow. By day, a little melts, sinks in, and then re-freezes. I've experienced that effect (locally speaking) several times where it is 6 + weeks before temperatures warm up enough for the melt to get out of the ground. But as I noted earlier, at this location, the result is mostly spurs of all kinds all over the place, so that I can't take full advantage.
And we’ll begin a discussion on the habits of stations regarding the "Legal ID". This begins with a discussion of an UNID "1 On 1" sports station that Ragnar had on 1090, of which I lost the first couple of messages.
Wayne Heinen <Nrclog@aol.com>: BTW - 1 ON 1 used to have an affiliate list. They took it down prior to the 20th edition when I went to update the log from their site... Seems that they are afraid someone (ESPN?) might start targeting their affiliates... I got basically the same answer Pat got when I tried to get new info for the LOG...
Ragnar Danneskjold: I was half asleep but it was some sports perhaps ESPN. I have heard this station several days in a row and it has been in and out over XEPRS out here in AZ. I have heard WBAL here before but it was VERY rare. I hear that station in Plainview, TX more and it has some stuff like the Texas Rangers on it. Maybe it was them? Anyway, maybe my wife will wake me up snoring at 0230 and I can try it out again.
Ragnar Danneskjold: The problem is that the damn sports stations even ID less than Art Bell and that is real hard to do.
Patrick Martin <mwdxer@webtv.net>: It seems that many stations miss or skip their ID spot near the top of the hour. It seems to happen a lot while monitoring the GY channels.
Patrick Martin: No wonder I hear KDUS so strong at night. I guess since Phoenix doesn't have an FCC office, anything goes. At least the locals here drop power at night.
Rick Lewis <ricklew@primenet.com>: Patrick, KFNX on 1100 should also be an easy and frequent catch. The SR3 makes it easy to tell here, because when they're on low power, I can get KNX on wide-band mode, but not during the day or when they're on full power at night. Sunday morning at around 3 A.M., not only were they crankin' out all the juice, but some genius must have thought that the more modulation they ran, the better they'd sound, and things were maxed out, probably the board was being driven to its limits. Another good reason not to have a station where people pay to get on and then do anything they want. If *anybody* deserves a citation, they do.
Patrick Martin: KFNX hasn't been heard since that night here, but I don't always check 1100.I would think Colorado Springs and San Francisco would not like it if they knew KGNX did not drop power. I remember back in the early 90s when KGO contacted Ephrata WA (KTBI) when they didn't go off at LSS. KTBI then went off at their correct time.
Chris Knight: Speaking of non-identifiers, KKYN-1090 NEVER IDs. I was just listening to them on the way home from work tonight with USA Radio News and "Talk Radio Network". Of course, no ID at the top of the hour.
Ragnar Danneskjold: There used to be a HUGE monitoring station at Douglas, AZ but it was closed down a while back. Phoenix has not been quite right on the radio scene after it was shut down.
Russ Edmunds: I find that a large number of stations, particularly those employing satellite or other remote programming services for the bulk of their programming or those which rely primarily on a slogan or non-ID for their station's identity in the marketplace do not ID either at the top or bottom of the hour, or even on any regular schedule. This is true on both AM and FM. One trick is to bury the legal ID at :09 or :21 or :39 or :51. This tactic puts them inside of a 10 minute window with respect to ToH or BoH, and either from a perceived or a practical standpoint, they believe that this isn't going to be cited, and given what we know about the FCC's appetite (read that political and also budgetary) for such enforcement, they're probably right. So, as DX'ers, we need to adapt ourselves to realize that we might need to try to keep monitoring that UNID an extra 10 minutes to get to the ID. Of course when the station is in and out, it's no different than it ever was - if it ID's when it's up, that's great, if not, then you keep listening or move on!
Patrick Martin: Portland used to have a good FCC office too, but it was closed down and Seattle is the closest now to Oregon. Stations can do pretty much what they want.
Neil Kazaross <neilkaz@interaccess.com>: This is just one factor that has made AM DXing so frustrating over the past decade. More and more stations simply are next to impossible to ID. There carry syndicated stuff from a "bird" and good look trying to ID them. Not all satellite fed US stations are notorious non-IDers however. A few suggestions, other than the obvious one of seeking help from your fellow DXers.
1) Sometime you'll be tipped off by a couple of local ads. (Many don't agree with me...but when there's no doubt from the ad content, the station goes into my log book...then again I don't count call changes and thus probably have half the stations in my log as many others :))
2) These stations may switch over to a morning drive time format or possibly to a local HS or college sports event at times. One of my favorite time to DX is Friday nights when you get lots of High School sports and some of these stations are on with satellite stuff as other times.
Anyhow, just a couple suggestions to try to pin down some non-IDers....73
Mark Durenberger <durenberger@uswest.net>: In putting together a Twin Cities bandscan for DXAS, I've been sitting on our local "Sports" station, KFAN-1130 the past several days: Late afternoon, from :50 past until :10 past the next hour. No IDs. Just commercials and promos. Call letters mentioned, but no IDs. I sometimes wonder if they do this just to flaunt the rules....
Bruce Conti: WBAL Baltimore on 1090 usually does a good job IDing at the top of the hour. So if you're not hearing a clear ID from the UNID sports station on 1090, then WBAL is unlikely. However, according to the NRC AM Log, WBAL is the only sports station on 1090. When listening to a syndicated or network program from a distant station, such as 1-On-1 or ESPN, it's best to try to find a local parallel to identify the network. Knowing definitely whether it was 1-On-1 or ESPN would have made identification easier. I often use parallels for identifying domestic and foreign DX.
Russ Edmunds: This 'parallels' my earlier thought about compiling a list of the 800 #'s for all of the major call-ins, because that's another way to determine which one it is. There have been several times when I've had nothing more to go on than the 800 #. But, too, more and more sports stations seem to be showing up in the log with two or three sports networks....anymore, nothing is easy when it comes to ID'ing the DX.
Ragnar Danneskjold: "In putting together a Twin Cities bandscan for DXAS, I've been sitting on our local "Sports" station, KFAN-1130 the past several days: Late afternoon, from :50 past until :10 past the next hour. No IDs. Just commercials and promos. Call letters mentioned, but no IDs... I sometimes wonder if they do this just to flaunt the rules...." This is just about the norm of these sports format stations. Mark, I wish I could say that I would like the FCC to fine them for not IDing but the FCC neither has the money, manpower, or desire to enforce anything any longer. Its quite a shame.
Chris Knight: Russ, KKYN is the exception. I've monitored KKYN when condx are good to TX (i.e.: signal S9+40db and no QRM) and in one 2-hour interval didn't get an ID of any kind even though there was no major QSB (I was using a beverage antenna which helped). After monitoring about 5 hours or so total this season, I gave up any "serious" monitoring for an ID. From time to time I'll still listen from the car on commutes to and from work (or wherever). I get local ads, but no ID. It might not behoove them to ID at all since they are probably the only station in the Plainview, TX market. They probably are running more power than they should also since local KMXA get obliterated by them at night.
Patrick Martin: Apparently more and more stations are not IDing on the hour. I have tried to get an ID from an UNID talk station running Bruce Williams tonight on 1550 kHz. I believe the station to be KXTO-Reno, but dead air at the top of the hour and 6 min after the news before the show continues. I have run into that over and over in recent weeks, especially on the Graveyard channels. I tried 1550 at 11:59.50 and 12:06, again at 12:59.50 and 1:06 AM (PST), still dead air.
Russ Edmunds: Sounds like the program feed is leaving a lot of spaces for local ads, ID's, announcements. Many stations, particularly overnite, aren't able to sell enough ads, but find it easier/cheaper to keep the transmitter on anyway. If there are (for example) breaks left every 5 minutes, that's 12 per hour, and if the station is only going to ID once, you have to listen an hour to try to get an ID, and one piece of splatter or static crash or burst of electrical noise can wipe out that one ID. Fun, ain't it?
SPOTLIGHT ON : TALK AMERICA
I’m not going to get to the affiliate list this time, too long, needs reformatting, and lack of time being the reasons – maybe sometime down the road if there’s interest. However, I will offer some information on the Talk America Radio Networks (there are apparently two of them – did you know that? And the "World Web News".). I don’t have information on when they provide local breaks, but if I get that it will be included here. The network’s mailing address is: 354 Turnpike Street, Canton, MA 02021. Their phone number is 781-828-4546, and the fax number is 781-828-3822. The following background information is from their web site: http://www.talkamerica.com
About Talk America Radio Networks
"Founded in 1992, Talk America Radio Networks is the only national radio network offering Talk programming 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Available on two satellites...Satcom C-5, and Spacenet 3, Talk America Radio Networks is now heard on hundreds of radio stations in all 50 States including Alaska and Hawaii. Some of the Talk America Radio Networks programming is also
heard in the Virgin Islands. Mainstream programming characterizes the sound Talk America Radio Networks with outstanding personalities reflecting a wide variety of views on the political spectrum.
Also, with all breaks filled and 25 and 35 cycle inaudible tones provided, an automated station can depend solely on Talk America Radio Networks programming for hours or days at a time. Talk America Radio Networks offers it's own news service. The World Web News Network offers world and national news, sports and national weather on the hour around the clock. On the half hour, news headlines and the nation's weather are broadcast. And when a station is affiliated with Talk America Radio Networks, they receive far more than meritorious programming. They benefit from the willingness of most Show Personalities to do promos and/or local commercials for their station; they
save on equipment; telephone costs; and receive valued Internet exposure."
They do provide an hourly schedule which is too detailed to go into here, but the following is the list of hosts that can be heard – this should help ID the network, anyway.
Hosts On Talk America 1
Dan Avakian & Mark Ferro
Bill Bailey, JD. C.P.U
Mary Barretta & Tom Kraeutler
Gene Burns
Dr. Joseph Deltito
Dr. Derrick DeSilva
John DeBevoise
Jaclyn Easton
Raoul Felder
Pedro Fernandez
Tom Gresham
Bob Hardcastle
Guy Kemp
Bob Long
Marc Mandel
Joe Mazza
Gabe Mirkin
Paul Mcshane
Jim McKayMike Lamb, Matt Murray & Shannon Hoffman
The Online Shopping Report
Phil Paleologos
Paul Parent
Judi Paparelli
John Quaintance
Connie Ross and Gary Campbell
Mitch Schlimer
Dennis Sheppard
Andrea Star
David Stein
Bob & Russ Taft
Chandler Van Voorhis & Carey Crane
Mort White
Jacquelyn Wolfer
Hosts On Talk America 2
Jim Blasingame
Gene Burns
Dale Callahan & Carole Marks
Pat Choate
Mills Crenshaw
Ken Dashow
John Debevoise
Pedro Fernandez
Ira Fistell
Billy Fitzgerald
Bob Hall
Maureen Hall
Chuck Harder
Michael Harrison
Guy KempLloyd Kruckerberg & John Dowling
Duke Liberatore & Jan McBarron
Paul Parent
Jim Petty
Robert Petro
Patte Purcell
Dr. Allan Somersall
Ruth & Ed Shaw
Stephen Sloan
James E. Smith
Trixxi
Armstrong Williams
Jim Wishner