David Braun, dcbraun@delanet.com - Sat, 17 Nov 2001

I’m going to finish off the discussions on QSL’s and related topics this time.

Ron Gitschier <RGITSCHIER@doyle.navy.mil>: I actually listen to ID collages I make on tape. That what makes me kind of quirky; what the hey. I read manuals instead of novels. Gotta feed my head with tech stuff. I feel it's a better use of my time. The IDs I collect on tape are also to share with any other interested parties. I have about 800 cassettes and homebrew CDs are on the rise too. Luckily I have a loving tolerant spouse who is an everything in it's place/a place for everything kinda gal. Thanks, Sandy.

Rick Kenneally <woodlandview@yahoo.com>: This is fun thread - it's interesting to see the differing philosophies on verification. I particularly liked Ron's note re QSL Managers. My DXing started in 1978 with reception of PJB-800 (talking about flamingos) on my very cheap, all-in-one stereo. I've always been a bit of a collector, so I started a list almost immediately and began "collecting" my receptions. Shortly thereafter I read that people could write to stations for verification - much the way I'd been verifying long distance communication on my CB. I wrote a few reception reports and got a few letters back, but it was tedious. So I turned to taping, and it became a necessary and integral part of the hobby.

Russ mentioned the "I know what I heard" approach, which is great. I've tried that from some locations, but it just never quite worked for me. If I couldn't prove it, I didn't hear it. For example, a couple months ago, I heard WHUC-NY-1230 daytime groundwave. But in my tape shuffling, I managed to lose track of the recording. When I realized I didn't have the tape, I deleted the reception from my log. It just didn't sit right with me to have an entry in the log that didn't have an associated entry in the tape library.

Only two or three times in over two decades have I gone back and listened to any of those tapes, but I've kept careful track of them as we've moved around. And after the recent thread questioning someone's reception, I'm glad they're there.

Looking back, I'd love to have a monster QSL collection. I've often looked at the few QSLs I've got from particularly noteworthy receptions. But that much time in front of a typewriter, and the work to get station personnel to do something they don't want to do, would have killed the hobby for me.

So long as they hobbyist is honest, then whatever system or standard that makes the hobby enjoyable is the right one for that person.

Kevin Redding <amfmtvdx@qwest.net>: Ron, Looks like you are as sick an individual as I am. I read lots of tech stuff too. I suppose its the geek gene taking over…Gee, I only have about 285 tapes. I guess I have tape envy now. My wife bought me a bunch of wooden tape crate kind of things to put them all in. She won't let me just pile the stuff all over the place and I can actually find stuff because of it...

Russ Edmunds <wb2bjh@nrcdxas.org>: Another factor in my early decision to stop sending for veries was the receipt of a few verifications on tentative reports which later turned out to have been someone else, or, in one case, two different stations verifying for the same tentative report. One could say that I shouldn't have sent the same tentative report to two stations, but I figured maybe that would resolve who it was. Ha!

I am aware, of course, that many of our number subscribe to the "if I don't have a verie (or a tape) I didn't 'really' hear it" idea, and that's fine, too.

And, I suppose that my stopping taping was more of a decision made for me by the circumstances of a reel-to-reel machine dying and then having to DX mostly from the car, although as both John Bowker and Kevin Redding have pointed out some time back, there are ways to accomplish taping in the car - in fact both of them have done it. In my case, I suppose that I couldn't cost-justify the expense of money and effort to get there with the rather limited payback.

But that's why ice cream comes in 9 million flavors, right?

Kevin Redding: Russ, John and I have different methods of doing that, taping from the road. John wires into the speakers and I bring a boombox and stop for an hour and eat or something and let the tape roll until its done. I suppose John is more efficient than I but it seemed like a lot of work since I don't travel a lot. If you use my method when on the road, don't get anything longer than a 60 minute tape or you are going to be there forever. I like to have one tape completely full of one station if possible when I am on the road. I do have tapes at home of IDs and snippets though but most are a full tape and 90 minutes.

Patrick Martin <mwdxer@webtv.net>: Russ, if you still have your reel to reel machine, it might be less expensive to get it repaired than to try and find another. I have two reel to reel machines that need work, so I cannot play my DX before 1992, which I would like. There isn't anywhere to get a reel to reel machine repaired on the Oregon coast, so I will have to take it into Portland. I think both machines just need a good cleaning. I don't think "new" reel to reel machines are not built today, unless maybe some machine for radio stations, if that.

When I was a kid at 16 (I am now 52), I started QSLing as many of it did then. At first I wanted the quantity. "Gee I've got 50 stations verified", That sort of thing. As time went on, I found something else, a big piece of radio station history. Now it has been 36+ years and counting and 2750+ QSLs and counting. I don't collect QSLs to show them off at GTG's. I have taken them sometimes, if people want to see them. But I enjoy looking through them on a quiet day thinking of all the stories involved in hearing the station and getting the QSL. The card I got from ZK1ZC-630-Cook Islands. I heard that with a lightening storm overhead, which are very rare on the Oregon coast. Very AU conditions that night with the station audible on 630 kHz. I was a member of the NZRDXL at the time and just after I sent out the taped report, I received my bulletin stating that a DXer just returned from The Cook Islands. He reported a storm had hit a few days before knocking out their 5KW transmitter and when I heard them ZK1ZC was operating with only 500 watts! They had a really nice card too. I have heard ZK1ZC since, but not with 500 watts. That card means a lot to me. Yes, I even have the audio recorded on reel to reel. That was in 83 or 84 I think.

On the few tentative reports I do send out, I always enclose a cassette tape, as the station can hear it. That way it is easy to tell if it was their station I heard. I don't depend of a written (typed) report alone. Tapes & reception reports do take a lot of time. As I type this I heard two new ones last night I need to send out. I have seen some older collections in the past and those old QSLs are beautiful and a great piece of history.

Paul Swearingen <PlsBCBDXER@aol.com>: "it might be less expensive to get it repaired than to try and find another." Your best bet is to get lucky and find a replacement machine in a thrift shop - or like I did, have a friend who owed me money and brought me a rack-mount Pioneer RT-707 instead (along with a box full of 7-inch tapes). Most schools have dumped their old Wollensak reel-to-reel recorders, but there are probably a few of these old tanks floating around (I still have one of these, too, plus a Teac that needs a little TLC, a Roberts that has one dead channel, and another real cheapie that nonetheless has a variable speed control on it. I think it still works.). In this day and age, you're more likely to find someone willing to give these unused machines away just to make room for them (which is why my basement is now a computer museum).

I started taping on a Sony reel-to-reel in '75 mostly because I had a lot of old tapes discarded from the various radio stations I'd worked at - most with a splice or two in 'em - more tapes than stamps and envelopes. It died and wasn't worth fixing - no parts available. But by then I had quite a few choices, and went with cassette tape. Next step will be to burn CD's of my collection. They're not as much fun to sit around and watch, hi, but when I get old and weak I'll be able to hide my collection in a few inches of space and still have hours of memories to listen to (say, that'll one good way to clear everyone out of my room when I get tired of them - put on the DX CD's!).

I recently revived several of my old Sanyo Betacords with new belts and idler wheels from a place I stumbled onto doing 'Net research: <<http://www.studiosoundelectronics.com/indexfrm.htm>> - and I noticed that they carried repair kits for other electronic devices, too. Replacing belts and idler wheels on most recorders (cassette, VCR, etc.) isn't too difficult, and in most cases these degenerating parts are the cause of equipment failure. You can save a lot of money this way.

(Yes, I still use Beta VCR's - I also listen to 8-tracks, too!).

Patrick Martin: I am glad I am not the only one with "Boat Anchors" floating around! One of my old reel to reel machines is an Teac. I also have an old 8 track home unit and have about 2,000 video tapes. I am an old collector of vintage TV shows from the 50s/60s. Most of the tapes I have (1100+) are Beta. I bought my first machine in 1977 when I lived in Portland. The thing was $1100 and only played two speeds. The most then was a 2 hour tape at $20 each! You know after all these years the tapes play fine. I am surprised they would last that long!

Russ Edmunds: I also have (a Wollensak recorder), but it isn't stereo - it's one of those idiotic 2-track mono machines that won't 'read' real stereo and the machine which I recorded all of them on recorded in true stereo, so the tracks don't match up. And the main thing that's broken on the one I recorded them on - a Lafayette, no less - no longer records stereo, but I suspect it does play. I do know that I'm not even going to attempt to repair either myself, and I haven't looked for someone else to do so. But, true enough, there are hamfests and so on....

Paul Swearingen: Including a discrete "looking for..." in your local daily, which might flood you with offers. I sold an old Wolly to a couple that way - they wanted something to play their son's taped letters on, with at least a limited speed control. He'd died in Vietnam, and the tapes were all they had left. They were delighted to get it.

David Hochfelder <hochfeld@rci.rutgers.edu>: I've had nearly a 100% return on my reports (still waiting on WTIC). Of course, I only send them out for DX tests...

I know that it's an important part of the hobby for many people, but I don't put much into it. Seems like it's more work than anything else. However, I find ham QSL's to be different. After all, I actually had a conversation with the other operator. So it's nice to have the souvenir of that conversation.

That's my $0.02.

Eric C. Loy <obvious@prairienet.org>: I do have a few IDs on tape...1400-KILE on a frequency check, and 1140-LV de la Victoria, Colombia...but I was young and didn't have the money to keep getting more cassettes. Stamps used to be cheaper.

Russ, as far as reel machines go...try your local radio station! They might let you in to dub some off in off hours...or they might have one to sell cheap. We barely use ours anymore...we are more likely to get our production on minidisk, CD or mp3.

Randy Stewart <jrs555t@smsu.edu>: Speaking of sources for open-reel machines, there's always eBay... I just did a search there and came up with 325 items matching "reel" in the "Consumer Electronics" category. There are usually tons of machines on the auction sites, if you happen to like that sort of thing (which I personally don't...) (a tribute to the late author/humorist Douglas Adams and his "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" series...). There are also several web sites that sell/buy/trade/repair/etc. vintage audio gear (and yes, open-reel tape decks qualify as "vintage"... like Eric Loy said, radio stations barely use them anymore, what with all the digital media available to them--hard-drive-based audio recording/editing, minidisks, CD-R, DAT, etc.)... Check these every few days, as the inventory seems to turn over pretty fast...

www.audioclassics.com

www.classicaudio.com (these are two different companies)

www.oaktreevintage.com

Toys From the Attic www.tfta.com/asp/default.asp

Those who like old open-reel equipment might get a kick out of the "Vintage Reel to Reel" page www.ozemail.com.au/~bassboy/getreel/

Mike Brooker <aum108@idirect.com>: I have DX tapes going back to 1976, that I haven't listened to in years. Some of them are on el cheapo Radio Shack "Concertape" cassettes, that have the "Compact Cassette" logo printed on them. I think some of the tapes have begun to disintegrate as they haven't been stored in ideal conditions of temperature and humidity.

I used to be a prolific QSLer, on both AM and SW. But now I will only send for a QSL if the station is expecting reports (e.g. for a CPC test, or a shortwave pirate). I also used to collect bumper stickers, window stickers, top 40 survey charts, and other promotional items. More often than not in the 70s and early 80s the stations would be more than happy to throw in a coverage map or sticker along with the verie.

Patrick Martin: I doubt if any stations even have music charts. I remember driving to CA (my first time) in 1970 with Bill Block in 1970 and stopping at stations all over and getting charts. Ahhh the good ol' days!

Pete Taylor <taytac@worldnet.att.net>: The two main topics being discussed are (1) the desire (or lack of it) of DXers to get veries and (2) the obligation (or lack of it) of station personnel to answer reports. Like Dave Gleason, I, too have been on both sides, but for purposes of this discussion, this is moot because I was just as excited about receiving reports as I was sending them.

For the record, I tape station IDs (live, not remote controlled) and subsequently count them as verified. If I tape a mess of stuff from a station but there are no call letters, I will send a report. Occasionally, when I hear that a station is sending out a glorious QSL, I will report it, too, even though I already have it taped. I'm good for a couple of follow-ups (maybe more, if it is important, like WMDM), and maybe even a phone call. Of course, I have been more active in recent years because I have been DXing from a new location (we moved here from SF in 1996) and because of the activation of the X-band.

I am an orderly kind of guy (most Virgo’s are) and I like collecting things which I can put in the computer and quantify. I also have some quality veries the likes of which will never show up again. However, I have cut back on reports simply because it takes up too much time. The cassettes haven't started to decompose yet so I can still listen to good catches any time. (I edit them off the tape I recorded on and put compressed versions of the IDs on a second tape so I can go through them fairly quickly. If it's a really fascinating o-t-o reception, like Argentina-1620, I keep a copy of the whole reception).

What I am missing in all this is an accurate sequential log of all stations I have ever heard (as opposed to reported/verified). I started writing them down when I was very young, but didn't keep the date and times. I got some old nearly-finished rolls of AP news machine paper when I visited stations in Miami and would retype my "heard" list in city/state order every six months. So really, the list of those which are verified and tape is pretty much all I have to show.

The other issue is harder to address because there are so many variables. Gas station attendants don't fill up our gas tanks any more (except in OR and one or two others). Everything is faster; bottom lines are tighter. For radio stations, the only thing that counts is the Metro Survey Area (and perhaps TSAs for a few national advertisers). Station coverage areas are relatively predictable and inquiries and responses from outside these are meaningless in terms of day to day operation. It is easy to pick on station operators, but I don't think there are any businesses out there which haven't undergone a similar change in mentality.

I think I have been very lucky to get as many veries as I have – and with patience, I think they are still out there to be had. It is just harder. We have to write better reports. Send something memorable, not just a "gimme." We have an opportunity to educate people about the hobby and win friends. Call the station and try to get the name of the person who is most likely to respond. Be smarter.

I congratulate Pat Martin on his perseverance; more power to him. Sending reports and expecting veries is a personal choice. But there are not Phil Beckman's or Ron Gitschier's at every station. Whatever you do, though, just don't treat the station as if it were obligated to respond.

Patrick Martin: Pete, I totally agree with you. You really hit the QSLing situation "on the head". QSLing is a personal thing and some don't care for it, some do. It is a lot of work to get the results. I have been QSLing now for 36+years, but getting the QSL nowadays can be tough. I do feel that a certain amount of stations could care less about reports. That is why the reply rate is down. But there are those that do take an interest in reports. Be it the secretary, PD, or whoever. But "bribing" the station is sometimes more productive now. It does pay off. I know one DXer who sometimes sends flowers to the station secretary (female) if she responds or at least a thank you card. Not a bad idea. She will remember that.

One thing that has hurt the QSLing hobby are the "gimmie" reports along with bad and dishonest reports. Things like that can and does turn the CE off. That is one reason WSM does not reply anymore. Too many people getting info off their real audio. In some ways, the internet has helped with QSLs, but in other ways it has hurt the hobby.

I remember hearing WPSL-1590-FL a few years ago. I phoned the station and I was told no way I could have heard them. I must have heard them on audio off the internet. Anyway, I send a cassette of the scratchy signal and I did get a QSL letter back. The tape did the trick I am sure.

I don't mind sending cassette tapes out. I can buy them cheap enough at Costco and the way postage costs, the extra 50 cents for the cassette doesn't make much difference. Like I said earlier, any hobby costs money and time. Some people smoke & drink. I prefer to QSL.

We have some information on the ESPN Radio Network that should help you know when to try to listen for local IDs.

Eric Loy: Since I have had very little DX to talk about the last few days, I thought I would take the time to write on DXing the ESPN Network stations. I will deal specifically with the GameNight, All Night and Weekend format.

At the top of the hour, if the local station doesn't go to network news, the following happens:

00:00 Sportscenter

01:30 Local :60 break

02:30 Sportscenter

04:00 Local :30 break

04:30 Sportscenter

05:00 Local 2:00 break

This will take ESPN until 07:00, where they will play a :10 music bed for an ID, then join programming. Note: if the local station goes to other networks for news TOH, they will either join up with the ESPN feed when the news ends, or play local ads until 07:00. Either way, the 06:00-07:00 time is a very good time to catch a local ad, possibly followed by an automated ID break.

The first "segment" ends with a Sportscenter, which floats around the 20:00 mark.

20:00 Sportscenter

23:00 Network :60

24:00 Local 3:00

And, again, into a :10 bed for automated ID.

Segment 2 lasts until about 40:00, again a "floating" time.

40:00 Sportscenter

43:00 Network 2:00

45:00 Local 2:00

Into the :10 ID bed.

Segment 3 lasts until 55:00. this is a HARD TIME. Local stations are given 4 minutes of ad break time here. ESPN takes it back at 59:00 for a 50 second segment, then :10 seconds for a TOH ID.

NOTE: If you hear ESPN promos during what would be local breaks, you probably won't get anything useful out of the break. Those are the network fills. If you hear PSAs, this is a GOOD sign. It probably means the station automation is programmed to fill the breaks locally no matter what, and significantly increases your chance to hear local material, and an automated ID before they return to ESPN.

Hope this is helpful.