DXer's Notebook #16

For release on Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:40:50

By David Braun, dcbraun@comcast.net

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As the following discussion about Daytime DX was occurring this past week on the listserv, I caught WLS at 11:00 AM here in Delaware on the 16^th of January.

Saul Chernos <schernos@yahoo.com>: A question for you all: Wayne Plunkett, a Toronto DXer and broadcast consultant, were talking about IBOC and also the Burnt River ON DXpedition last weekend where Niel Wolfish, Ken Alexander and I received strong signals from as far away as St. Pierre et Miquelon (1375), Nova Scotia (780), PEI (630, 720), Chicago IL (various clears), St. Paul MN (1500) and Louisville KY (840) at high noon.

This was unprecedented for any of us, and Wayne says he's never heard the Canadian Maritimes during the day, either. We are wondering: What is your farthest daytime DX on AM? What was coming in, and when did this occur? Were there any unusual conditions noted in conjunction with this?

Russ Edmunds <wb2bjh@nrcdxas.org>: While living in Northern NJ, there were a few times where I heard many of the Chicago clears and also WHO at noon or so. I had a daytime local then on 830 so checking WCCO was out, and I was never able to pull KMOX out from beside then-WNEW.

Chicago was a bit to the upside of 700 miles, and Des Moines was further. No special conditions, simply midwinter (December-January) when the daylight hours are the shortest, and thus, at least in theory, the absorption should also be the least.

David Gleason <david@davidgleason.com>: Farthest and best daytime from Cleveland, OH in early 60's. 1035 4VEC Cap Haitien, Haiti around noon. Deep winter. 1470 from Canadian plains... it's gone now and I think it was Regina during CONELRAD test 11 AM in deep winter. Watrous and Winnipeg CBCs also heard. Heard a number of NW Ontario and Quebec and NS stations in same CONELRAD tests.

Tom Dimeo <amdx@earthlink.net>: In January 2002 I heard WHB Kansas City here in Harrisburg

Pennsylvania at around 10:00 A.M. Also coming through was WTMJ 620, CKLW 800, KMOX 1020 and several Chicago stations.

Gerry Bishop <gerryb4991@cox.net>: WLS at high noon, dead of winter, on the TRF barefoot. That was more than 10 years ago, exact year buried in the notes somewhere. Nothing ever equaled that, and it hasn't happened twice. No other Chicago clears were heard, just that one. (Niceville, FL)

Wally Wawro <wwawro@wfaa.com>: While visiting Chicago 2 weeks ago I had KFAQ-1170, Tulsa, on January 2nd, around 9:30 AM with Glen Beck. Signal was outstanding. I don't recall hearing anything really exotic here in Dallas during daylight though.

Tom Dimeo: Back in the early sixties there was an occurrence on the 75 meter amateur band that I never experienced since. I was in Lewistown Pennsylvania and between about 10:00 and 11:00 A.M. I was working stations from all over the east. Stations north to Maine, south to North Carolina and west to Indiana. Most hams were on AM then and signals were all very strong. It didn't seem to matter how much power was being used, all stations sounded about the same strength. It was unbelievable! Tuning up and down the dial, 3800 kHz to 4000 kHz, good clear signals could be heard. The topic of discussion on almost every frequency was the unusual conditions.

I don't think I checked other amateur bands or the AM broadcast band. I don't remember the time of year, but I think it was early fall. There was another ham a few blocks from me who was on the air at the same time and I asked him the next day if it had been a dream. He assured me that it wasn't, and I had my log too.

Powell Way <powell@conterra.com>: I have heard WLW in the daytime but it was verrry weak. Recently WSAI stayed listenable all day long. That is about it... (SC)

Pat Durkin <pjdurkin@mmm.com>: Here in the Twin Cities, I've heard WTAM-1100 Cleveland

(625 miles) at 2 PM several times, as well as many of the Chicago 50 kW stations. One time I heard CJOB-680 Winnipeg, about 450 miles distant, at 12:30 PM, strong enough to overcome the spillover from a local on 690. When I used to live in the Milwaukee area, it wasn't uncommon to hear WLW-700 and WSM-650 in the daytime. Of course the most likely time of year for this to happen was in December-January.

Frederick R. Vobbe <fredv@nrcdxas.org>: KTWO in Casper WY at 4PM in late November when I lived in Temperance MI. Aprox-1982.

Robert Foxworth <rfoxwor1@tampabay.rr.com>: Probably WHO would be my best daytime from Long Island, when I was living there. The useless WJHR killed that one. The typical daytime mode would be to appear in early afternoon and then actually fade OUT again by the time it became late afternoon, say by 1500-1600 LT.

Russ Edmunds: That was also my observation. It seemed that shorter-distance stuff took over.

Rick Robinson <kf4ar@arrl.net>: I logged CIAO 530 at 0915 right before Christmas. This is pretty late in the morning for DX here and the first time I've logged them from Hendersonville (NC). Luckily, Radio Vision Cristiana was off the air. RVC rules 530 like a local here during the evening.

Last March, I logged WLW here at 1215. Back to 500KW? I know they are a blowtorch, but this was the latest I'd ever heard them. Usually all DX is gone by 0830 at the latest.

Paul Swearingen <PlsBCBDXER@aol.com>: Received in Topeka some time between 10 am-2 pm: CBW-990; WJR-760; WLW-700; WSM-650, WSM and WJR more than once. As I remember, the CBW reception was at high noon with very cold, dry conditions but a bright sun shining. Some of the others were with higher humidity and even some fog.

Paul LaFreniere <plafren@boreal.org>: November 2001 while sitting in my pickup parked at the Pincushion Overlook above Lake Superior between 1230 and 1300 CST logged CINT-650 Saskatoon, CBX-740 Edmonton, CKKY-830 Wainwright, CHQT-880 Edmonton, CKSA-1080 Lloydminster.

Mike Brooker <aum108@idirect.com>: (In Toronto) I've heard WLS-890, WCBS-880 and the other New York and Chicago clears during the daytime. Usually get them at midday at least once during the winter DX season. While visiting Chicago in June 2001 I heard CFCO-630 Chatham, ON but that

was waterpath-assisted (DXing at Grant Park).

Doug Smith <w9wi@w9wi.com>:CFCO does nicely to the west. I hear them well after sunrise in Milwaukee - may even have heard them at high noon at my mother's place (10 miles inland from Lake Michigan).

Mike Pietruk <pietruk@panix.com>: CFCO was a regular daytimer when I spent my summers vacationing as a child on the Indiana dunes testifying to Doug mentioning their strong signal to the west. Hence, I am not surprised that they'd be picked up on an afternoon on Chicago's lakefront only about 35 or so airmiles away from my old summertime haunt. Water conductivity is wonderful for daytime signals; another example of this was routinely listening to WDCB Escanaba, MI (from the UP) at our summertime Indiana Dunes location even though it was next on the dial to 670 WMAQ's powerhouse signal, and it was not uncommon to pick up the 250 watts from WMAM Marineete, WI even though it was next to WIND on the dial.

Allan Dunn <missingmaia@attbi.com>: Here just south of Boston we were hearing WGN and WMAQ this morning in the clear with WLW under a semi-local. All this at 10 AM ELT, three hours after sunrise (1/15/03).

Eric Conchie <econchie@reach.net>: (In Tweed, ON) My best daytime DX would actually have been yesterday (1/15/03)--WESR 1330 Onley, VA (very weak, only caught the calls, very little program info), at around 10 AM eastern time. Other than that, it would have been WCBS New York about 2 years ago around noon on a January day.

Pete Lee <sunshine@angelfire.com>: My indicator of when DX is coming in daytime (in Wyoming) is the presence of interference to KHOW-630. Wednesday it was there at 12 noon; still haven't gotten ID's 'cause KHOW's groundwave does not fade. Had a medical appointment so couldn't pursue matters further...

Mark Connelly <MarkWA1ION@aol.com>: Saudi Arabia - 1521 at 1 p.m. EST in December during the mid '90s from East Harwich, Cape Cod, MA (30 m sloper to Drake R8A).Charles Hutton <charlesh3@msn.com>: Hey Mark: This was so interesting that I got out Geoclock to take a look at the path. It's surprisingly close to being a darkness path! You didn't give an exact time so I ran 1:30 EST and found the edge of the gray zone to be about 1550 miles from the end of Cape Cod. If we assume F skip with a maximum of 2400 miles per hop, you're within 400 miles of having the control point in darkness. And then of course there's the possibility we aren't dealing with standard F hops...Anyhow, I'm curious as to whether you think this was pure 100% daytime DX or the very first taste of nighttime propagation. Could be either.

Mark Connelly: Hi Chuck. The ionosphere was, of course, involved. Still 1 p.m. EST (1800 UTC) is well within the definition of daytime DX when sunset is at 4:15. I had Algeria-549 just slightly later than this last March at East Harwich: actually a greater time pre-sunset. My latest TA (Ireland-567 at 5:05 a.m. EST/ 1005 UTC) was also from there. Nothing like a QTH near the sea with high enough pine trees to hang serious slopers.

Iceland on 189 is threshold-level groundwave to outer Cape Cod and Cape Ann. It (and the old Ireland-252) are easy in Newfoundland all day and according to VE1ZZ also good round the clock on his island off the Nova Scotia coast.

MW TA's all day? If one of the lowband Azores stations went high power (>200 kW), we'd get 'em at the coast. RVC-530 Turks & Caicos is audible all day on Cape Cod at about 1400 miles. Another 600 or so miles to Azores would need about double RVC's power and, obviously, an east-facing beach, a low-slop channel, and some serious wire. Skip TA's like Norway-1314 are audible all day at Cappahayden, NL in late autumn/ early winter.

Some of you TP guys out at Grayland have heard some amazing stuff well after sunrise.

Charles Hutton: Ah ha, we have a little semantics thing going. Since the control point was very near the grayline, and we are talking about F skip, I think of it as normal DX not daytime DX. That's just me and I bet most others don't think of it that way. As for TP DX from Grayland, I recall hearing HLAZ at approximately 10:30 AM when the local sunrise was about 7:30 AM. There was still fair/poor audio and it was in no danger of disappearing soon when we put a halt to DXing. Even more interesting were the carriers on 1008 and 1575 that I noted several years ago as we finished putting up a Beverage at Grayland. No other carriers were noted across the whole band. These two carriers were most likely from the Russians on the Kamchatka peninsula in the far northwest corner of Russia. I was hearing the carriers at about 5:30 PM local time which would be just after local sunset in the winter, but Far East Russia was of course in daylight about 3000 miles away. Sunset for them would be several hours away, although I'm not exactly sure of how relevant that is at the latitudes of the stations and the path.

Neil Kazaross <neilkaz@interaccess.com>: OK...I'll risk raining on a few parades here and await the flames because I'll be gone for several days and unable to defend myself.:)!! All none of this distant stuff other than groundwave across oceans like RVC 530 is anymore than weak daytime skip. Once one gets to a quiet QTH and puts up real wire these this stuff is common. Especially when one deals with carriers. Here's one for you all. Even in the summer, from Narragansett RI in the 70's I could almost always detect a weak 1200 carrier looping towards San Antonio at noon in the summer. Groundwave...not a prayer...weak skip traces...I guess so. Spurs...I didn't get any there and it didn't loop towards Providence off the back end.

I could go on and on and on and will mention that TA in Nov at Cappahayden start coming in around darkness around 1 PM local.

Charles Hutton: Hey Neil: I read this a few times and couldn't quite understand what you were trying to say...If we are going to flame you, we're going to have to understand it!

Russ Edmunds: You're not alone, Chuck. If I were on the west coast, and I heard something from the east coast at 1 pm in winter I'd consider it sunset DX. IMHO 'daytime DX' requires a fully daylight path.

Robert Foxworth: Guess my timing is a bit off... perhaps this year it would not really matter... but anyway, this reminder that there exists a good theoretical path for people in Seattle etc. northwards to hear Europeans on MW at local Seattle sunRISE, when the sun is just setting in central Europe, via greyline short-path. I have seen hams reporting good 75-meter skip over such a path. This in the 1500Z time region. At this time of year with the very latest sunrises (here in Tampa it is about 0724 local time, the latest of the whole year) already the local sunset has become a half hour later than mid-December.

Anyone in the Pacific NW hearing such? I think NHP had some possibles a couple years ago.

Russ Edmunds: I agree that "All…of this distant stuff other than groundwave across oceans like RVC 530 is…weak daytime skip." "Once one gets to a quiet QTH and puts up real wire these this stuff is common" is also true, but many of these reports aren't in either category. Many are from non-quiet areas using internal or external loops.

I can remember occasions when TA's came in both at my North Jersey location and also at Ron Schiller's Monmouth Beach location as early as 3 pm local, or a good hour before darkness starts setting in.

Robert Foxworth: Me too, but this is my take: There exists groundwave reception of stations such as RVC-530 which propagate long distances across oceans. If you discount these conditions, then everything else that is heard is weak daytime skip. When you set up in a quiet location and use large wire antennas, then this weak daytime skip reception becomes common. This is especially true when the threshold of reception is just detecting a carrier, with a signal being too weak to produce audio.

There. Why use 43 words when 74 will do, hi.;-)

However - seriously - if it is weak daytime skip then it is a very stable, non-time-varying kind of skip which only changes in days, not in minutes or hours as nighttime skip changes. (huh? he said).

John Callarman <JohnCallarman@msn.com>: And I can remember when, on some winter afternoon occasions, I could hear WBZ at 3 p.m. in Corvallis, Oregon.

Marc DeLorenzo <MarstonsMarc@aol.com>: Gordon Nelson's definition of Daytime DX was: any station heard between 10:00am and 2:00pm at the receiver site. Why make it any more complex than that?

Charles Hutton: Definitely a lot of people use a rule like Gordon's. I don't know why I have to make it so hard, but my mind automatically wants to separate groundwave DX from ionospheric DX, and further subdivide ionospheric DX into D-layer-was-real-weak DX and control-point-was in-grayline DX. The mechanisms are so different I have a hard time uniting them with just a time of day rule.

Russ Edmunds: Again, I agree with Chuck. I think that the time of day at the reception point is a somewhat artificial thing to use as a focal point. There's a great deal of difference in propagation modes between a reception in PA of CA at local noon (when it's daylight in both places) than a reception in PA at 2 pm of a TA where the transmitter is in darkness and depending on the location, perhaps much of the path is. One is pure daytime reception; the other is, IMHO, sunset or greyline. But as this is still essentially an individual sport, and it doesn't really make any difference of import, since we don't have any columns which quantitatively track statistics that way.

John Callarman: Has anyone mentioned how the FCC defines Critical Hours -- sunrise to two hours past sunrise and two hours before sunset to sunset. Of course, there's a certain artificiality to that definition, too, because the sunrise and sunset times are based on the closest quarter hour to. well, I can't remember if it's the closest average quarter hour or the closest quarter hour to the middle of the month. Krumudgeons are codgers, aren't we?

Powell Way: Sometime after 1 PM I got WSCR and the French 860 that at TOH I heard "Ici Radio Canada"...what are those calls on that. It was weak but readable over WLBG in Laurens SC 75 miles from me.